Discussion: View Thread

I don't think that religious organizations can't be
spiritual, but I think that in general, the dogmatism often
breeds a self-righteous constraint against spirituality.
Essentially, spiritually is transmogrified into an "agree
with us" mindset that defines spirituality and its actions
and thought in terms of their singular dogma and beliefs.

Admittedly, it may be my experience, but I can assure you
that I've never been around spiritual people who have judged
me and/or my belief system. True, they may agree with me or
not, and sometimes they do not. But I've generally felt
respected by them nonetheless. Too often, religious people
and their religious organizations have openly judged me;
some even used the banal threats of an eternity in hell if I
didn't agree with them. Others have implied that my
spiritual beliefs were dangerous and that I was being
controlled by some demonic force. I even heard a group of
Christians openly mock reincarnation as a "stupid idea";
unfortunately, they didn't know that reincarnation was part
of Christianity until a group of Christians got rid of the
idea because they thought it would deter people from
being "good." Whenever love is made subservient to dogma,
the outcome cannot be pretty.

Undoubtedly (and please, before I start getting hate e-
mails) there are some good, religious people who are also
very spiritual. But for many people, the dogma kills the
manifestation of a loving, transcendent spirituality--unless
of course, you agree with them.

Bob

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Bob:

I've had the same experience with religious people!

Mellani

__________________________________________________________
Dr. Mellani Day, D.B.A.
Assistant Dean of Business and Technology
Director, Master of Business Administration Program
College of Adult and Graduate Studies
Colorado Christian University
(303) 963-3434

"...if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear
to you." Phil. 3:15b


-----Original Message-----
From: Management, Spirituality & Religion [mailto:MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu]
On Behalf Of Robert A. Giacalone
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 10:41 AM
To: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu
Subject: Spirituality and Religion

I don't think that religious organizations can't be
spiritual, but I think that in general, the dogmatism often
breeds a self-righteous constraint against spirituality.
Essentially, spiritually is transmogrified into an "agree
with us" mindset that defines spirituality and its actions
and thought in terms of their singular dogma and beliefs.

Admittedly, it may be my experience, but I can assure you
that I've never been around spiritual people who have judged
me and/or my belief system. True, they may agree with me or
not, and sometimes they do not. But I've generally felt
respected by them nonetheless. Too often, religious people
and their religious organizations have openly judged me;
some even used the banal threats of an eternity in hell if I
didn't agree with them. Others have implied that my
spiritual beliefs were dangerous and that I was being
controlled by some demonic force. I even heard a group of
Christians openly mock reincarnation as a "stupid idea";
unfortunately, they didn't know that reincarnation was part
of Christianity until a group of Christians got rid of the
idea because they thought it would deter people from
being "good." Whenever love is made subservient to dogma,
the outcome cannot be pretty.

Undoubtedly (and please, before I start getting hate e-
mails) there are some good, religious people who are also
very spiritual. But for many people, the dogma kills the
manifestation of a loving, transcendent spirituality--unless
of course, you agree with them.

Bob

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I wonder how the discussion of this topic might change if we talked about
religious/spiritual 'behaviours' as opposed to religious/spiritual 'people'
(or 'organisations')?

I take the view that a person is a construct. It can be useful to employ
this construct at times. But when I add an adjective, and make the person a
'religious/spiritual person', I start to narrow my mind and my view, and
cease to see the person as they really are - a complex, unfathomable, rich,
extraordinary creature, a dynamic mystery to be encountered, understood,
honoured. Even if someone labels themselves as religious/spiritual, I
perceive that as a behaviour, and am interested in why they are labelling
themselves in any way at all. For me, this enables the encounter to stay
alive, flexible, engaged, and avoids polarisation, fixity, adversarial
win/lose debate and the death of dialogue.

Sometimes, I think religious behaviours align with a sense of the spiritual,
and sometimes they seem not to - it may be my own lack of vision and
inability to walk in the other's shoes that leads to my thinking the
behaviour is lacking spiritual connection. Indeed, I think that all our
behaviours are attempts to connect with the Source; it's just that some of
our attempts (and I include myself here) are colossally misguided,
uninformed or unaware. And sometimes, I think that behaviours that seem
imbued with a sense of the spiritual also have the look of religious ritual,
and have been inspired by religious teaching and understandings.

This email is an attempt to think about process, about how we talk about
these terms. Our language can trap us into familiar ways of thinking and
worn-out dualities (eg spiritual v. religious). It can also release us into
new ways of thinking, seeing, hearing, feeling. As I understand it, this is
a forum for spirituality and religion, not a battleground for spirituality
versus religion.

In the words of the Buddha, "he is one who reunites those who are divided, a
promoter of friendships, who enjoys concord, delights in concord, a speaker
of words that promote concord.² This is not so far from the idea of shalom
(peace), which has the same linguisitic root as shalem (wholeness). Beyond
differences, and deeper than them, is interconnectedness and oneness. Now is
that a religious belief, or a spiritual outlook? :)

Alexander

--------------------------------------------
Alexander Massey

UK landline: +44 (0)1865-716571
UK mob: +44 (0)7771-988207
Email: alexander@authenticvoice.co.uk
Authentic Voice - http://www.authenticvoice.co.uk

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Interesting thread here. I believe this is the first time I've commented on
here.

I have to agree that, unfortunately, many religious dogmas are indeed merely
doctrinal compromises of a political nature, and therefore, questionable at
very best (in terms of their nearness to reality/truth). It's also my sad
experience that many "religious" types somehow assume they are superior to
others or that it is their mission to force others to see things their way.
By the same token, however, as a scientist who believes in the existence of
God as much as he believes in the existence of other "truths," it's my
opinion that the role of MSR research ought to be that of seeking out and
hunting down the "truth" about Spirituality and Religion while keeping open
minds and loving/respectful hearts as we do so. We have a unique
opportunity here, to study the things that matter most to most people (their
spiritual and religious beliefs), and to learn how this influences their
work. Approaching things this way and with this attitude, with open minds
and loving hearts, we will create an environment that will stimulate
scientific progression. Also, with such an environment, on a personal
level, when we establish enough evidence, through our own personal
scientific investigation, about a particular spiritual principle, such that
we begin to feel convinced about its truthfulness (i.e. Bob highlights the
power of the principle of love), we'll be in a position to take that leap of
faith that will allow us to make enough sense out of our lives to keep
going. As scientists, we must accept some version of both faith and
universalism or I think we'll depart from the scientific method and become
dogmatic ourselves, denying our own professions. Let's love both believers
and non-believers until we come in unity to a general understanding of the
truth. And, if that never happens, let's keep loving and respecting both
believers and non-believers anyway!

Best,

Shaun



-----Original Message-----
From: Management, Spirituality & Religion [mailto:MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu] On
Behalf Of Day, Mellani J.
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 10:50 AM
To: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu
Subject: Re: Spirituality and Religion

Bob:

I've had the same experience with religious people!

Mellani

__________________________________________________________
Dr. Mellani Day, D.B.A.
Assistant Dean of Business and Technology
Director, Master of Business Administration Program
College of Adult and Graduate Studies
Colorado Christian University
(303) 963-3434

"...if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear
to you." Phil. 3:15b


-----Original Message-----
From: Management, Spirituality & Religion [mailto:MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu]
On Behalf Of Robert A. Giacalone
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 10:41 AM
To: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu
Subject: Spirituality and Religion

I don't think that religious organizations can't be
spiritual, but I think that in general, the dogmatism often
breeds a self-righteous constraint against spirituality.
Essentially, spiritually is transmogrified into an "agree
with us" mindset that defines spirituality and its actions
and thought in terms of their singular dogma and beliefs.

Admittedly, it may be my experience, but I can assure you
that I've never been around spiritual people who have judged
me and/or my belief system. True, they may agree with me or
not, and sometimes they do not. But I've generally felt
respected by them nonetheless. Too often, religious people
and their religious organizations have openly judged me;
some even used the banal threats of an eternity in hell if I
didn't agree with them. Others have implied that my
spiritual beliefs were dangerous and that I was being
controlled by some demonic force. I even heard a group of
Christians openly mock reincarnation as a "stupid idea";
unfortunately, they didn't know that reincarnation was part
of Christianity until a group of Christians got rid of the
idea because they thought it would deter people from
being "good." Whenever love is made subservient to dogma,
the outcome cannot be pretty.

Undoubtedly (and please, before I start getting hate e-
mails) there are some good, religious people who are also
very spiritual. But for many people, the dogma kills the
manifestation of a loving, transcendent spirituality--unless
of course, you agree with them.

Bob

_______________________________________________________________________

To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to:
MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit:
http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit:
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_______________________________________________________________________

To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to:
MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit:
http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

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Dear Members,

I am not an authority to define spirituality or religion, but intuitively
i feel that the work of any prophet was to establish the supreme power of
goodness over evil. and awaken the people from the slumber of darkness.
And then later their disciples organized His/Her teachings into an
organized way of living which was then called a religion.

Following is the excerpt from Light of Koran by Flore Descieux, Translated
by Caroline McCarthy

"Religion (from the Latin “re-legare”, to rejoin), “re-unites” the peoples
of this Earth...In other words, one must understand the need to have an
honest attitude towards oneself in order to appreciate the essence of
every religion and to realize that they all spring from the same unique
source.

The false notion of religion has given rise to a series of corruptions
and arbitrary interpretations..."

Therefore i feel that if any person if following any religion's true
spirit and its essence then he may be called a religious person but would
be very spiritual person and such a person would be able to see other's
point of view and would be respectful towards it.

But if the person has become fanatic and have just become ritualistic
without following the essence of the religion then he would not be
spiritual person and i would also say that he is not even a religious
person but playing in the hands of his false understanding of the
prophet's teachings.

Similar thing is true for the organizations as well, as pointed out in few
previous emails that organization is religious but spiritual as well or
some said that religious people were not open people.

So we cannot say that religious organization is never spiritual
organization but may be we can say fanatic religious organizations can not
be spiritual organization.

Please pardon me for any wrong understanding of the topic under discussion
and i would be very open to be corrected.

Regards
Shilpa
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SHILPA BAJPAI
Doctoral Candidate
Human Behavior & Organisational Development Area,
Fellow Program in Management -2006,
Management Development Institute,
Mehrauli Road, Sukhrali,
Gurgaon - 122001
INDIA
Tel: (+91) 124 4560664; 09250842440
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


> Our work on spiritual leadership makes a clear distinction between
> spirituality and religion. For example, here's excerpt from Fry, (2003,
> p. 705-706):
>
>
>
> A key reason for excluding questions of workplace spirituality from
> leadership and other theories of management practice to date is due to
> the confusion and confounding surrounding the distinction between
> religion and spirituality. Spirituality reflects the presence of a
> relationship with a Higher Power that affects the way in which one
> operates in the world. Spirituality is broader than any single formal
> or organized religion with it's prescribed tenets, dogma, and doctrines.
> Instead, spirituality (e.g. prayer, yoga, meditation) is the source for
> one's search for spiritual survival -- for meaning in life and a sense
> of interconnectedness with other beings. The spiritual quest is one
> that emphasizes a dynamic process where one purposefully seeks to
> discover their potential, an ultimate purpose, and a personal
> relationship with a Higher Power or Being that may or may not be called
> God.
>
>
>
> The renowned Dalai Lama is very clear in making the distinction between
> spirituality and religion in his search for an ethical system adequate
> to withstand the moral dilemmas of the new millennium:
>
>
>
> "Religion I take to be concerned with faith in the claims of one faith
> tradition or another, an aspect of which is the acceptance of some form
> of heaven or nirvana. Connected with this are religious teachings or
> dogma, ritual prayer, and so on. Spirituality I take to be concerned
> with those qualities of the human spirit-such as love and compassion,
> patience tolerance, forgiveness, contentment, a sense of responsibility,
> a sense of harmony-which bring happiness to both self and others" (Dalai
> Lama, 1999, p. 22).
>
>
>
> Spiritual concerns are thus separate from the concerns of any religious
> group and are not synonymous with those of religion. There is even the
> potential, if spirituality is viewed through the lens of religion, for
> it to be divisive in that it may exclude those who do not share in the
> denominational tradition or conflict with a society's social, legal, and
> ethical foundations of business and public administration. "Adherence to
> a religious workplace orientation can lead to arrogance that a
> particular company, faith, or even nation is somehow 'better' or
> worthier than another (Giacalone & Jurkiewicz , 2003, p. 13)." The Dalai
> Lama notes that while ritual and prayer, along with the questions of
> heaven and salvation are directly connected to religion, the inner
> qualities of spirituality, spiritual survival, and the quest for God and
> ultimately joy, peace and serenity and commitment to organizations that
> include and reinforce these qualities, need not be. Also, there is no
> reason why individuals could not or should not develop these inner
> qualities independent of any religious or metaphysical belief system.
> "This is why I sometimes say that religion is something we can perhaps
> do without. What we cannot do without are these basic spiritual
> qualities" (Dalai Lama, 1999, p. 22). The common bridge between
> spirituality and religion is altruistic love - regard or devotion to the
> interests of others. In this respect, the basic spiritual teachings of
> the world's great religions are remarkably similar. In religion this is
> manifested through the Golden Rule (sometimes called the "Rule of
> Reciprocity") do unto others as you would have them do unto you - which
> is common to all major religions (Shared Belief in the Golden Rule,
> 2003).
>
>
>
> From this perspective, spirituality is necessary for religion but
> religion is not necessary for spirituality. Workplace spirituality and
> spiritual leadership can therefore be inclusive or exclusive of
> religious theory and practice.
>
>
>
> Dalai
>
> Dalai Lama XIV (1999). Ethics for the new millennium. New York: Putnam
> Publishing Group.
>
>
>
> Fry, L. W. (2003). Toward a theory of spiritual leadership.
> The Leadership Quarterly. 14, 693-727.
>
>
>
> Giacalone, R A., & Jurkiewicz, C. L. (2003b). Toward a science of
> workplace spirituality, In R. A. Giacalone, & C. L. Jurkiewicz (eds.),
> Handbook of workplace
>
> spirituality and organizational performance (pp. 3-28). New York:
> M. E. Sharp.
>
>
>
> Shared belief in the golden rule. (2003). Religious Tolerance Org.
> Retrieved, from the World Wide Web:
> http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm
>
>
>
> Also see http://www.iispiritualleadership.com/index_files/resources.htm.
>
>
>
>
>
> Louis W. (Jody) Fry
>
> Professor of Management
>
> Tarleton State University - Central Texas
>
> 1901 South Clear Creek Rd.
>
> Killeen, TX 76548
>
> 254-519-5476
>
> fry@tarleton.edu
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Management, Spirituality & Religion [mailto:MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu]
> On Behalf Of Robert A. Giacalone
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 11:41 AM
> To: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu
> Subject: Spirituality and Religion
>
>
>
> I don't think that religious organizations can't be
>
> spiritual, but I think that in general, the dogmatism often
>
> breeds a self-righteous constraint against spirituality.
>
> Essentially, spiritually is transmogrified into an "agree
>
> with us" mindset that defines spirituality and its actions
>
> and thought in terms of their singular dogma and beliefs.
>
>
>
> Admittedly, it may be my experience, but I can assure you
>
> that I've never been around spiritual people who have judged
>
> me and/or my belief system. True, they may agree with me or
>
> not, and sometimes they do not. But I've generally felt
>
> respected by them nonetheless. Too often, religious people
>
> and their religious organizations have openly judged me;
>
> some even used the banal threats of an eternity in hell if I
>
> didn't agree with them. Others have implied that my
>
> spiritual beliefs were dangerous and that I was being
>
> controlled by some demonic force. I even heard a group of
>
> Christians openly mock reincarnation as a "stupid idea";
>
> unfortunately, they didn't know that reincarnation was part
>
> of Christianity until a group of Christians got rid of the
>
> idea because they thought it would deter people from
>
> being "good." Whenever love is made subservient to dogma,
>
> the outcome cannot be pretty.
>
>
>
> Undoubtedly (and please, before I start getting hate e-
>
> mails) there are some good, religious people who are also
>
> very spiritual. But for many people, the dogma kills the
>
> manifestation of a loving, transcendent spirituality--unless
>
> of course, you agree with them.
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to:
> MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu
>
>
>
> To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit:
> http://group.aomonline.org/msr/
>
>
>
> To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit:
> http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
> To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to:
> MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu
>
> To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit:
> http://group.aomonline.org/msr/
>
> To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit:
> http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1
>

_______________________________________________________________________

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Hello all,

I have students inquiring about Ph. D. programs in Leadership and Spirituality. Any suggestions as to where I can send them (where they won't have to wait until after they finish their Ph.D.'s to do what they really want to do)?

Best,
Margaret

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To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1