Discussion: View Thread

  • 1.  teaching from a place of right/wrong

    Posted 04-19-2009 05:17
    Hello all,

    I am having challenges with teaching that seem related to this theme of
    teaching from a place of what's right/wrong.

    Perhaps someone on this list has more advice on how to teach effectively
    from a place of many truths.
    Although I am not teaching spirituality or religious topics, I am teaching
    leadership and coaching and feedback. This is my first year teaching
    here--to rooms of 60 international MBA students at a time.


    1. It seems like the students want clear right/wrong answers.

    yet I spent years (training to be coach, doing landmark forum, etc.) to drop
    the paradigm of right/wrong, and now it feels like it is expected and
    seemingly effective (another professor who makes the students "wrong", or
    breaks them down so to speak with harsh language, gets great ratings), and
    students have asked me to be more critical and harsh with them during class
    discussion and role plays.

    2. Even moreso, realistically I suspect I am often presenting my own view as
    the "right" one, even if that view at times is "there are no truths".

    So now I am in an inquiry:

    First,
    **How can I learn to challenge students effectively, without making my view,
    or any one view, the right one?

    Second,
    although I may have attained some mastery in one-on-one coaching-type
    conversations for development and in academic research, I have MUCH to learn
    on how to faciliate large group dynamics for transformative learning.

    **What suggestions or additional resources have you found useful for
    facilitating large classrooms (up to 60) to challenge assumptions about
    leadership, relationships, the meaning of work and life??

    I just signed up for the OBTC conference, AOM conf, and the MSR retreat, so
    I hope to talk with people more about this in the next few months.
    Best, Tara

    Tara Wernsing
    Assistant Professor
    Instituto de Empresa (IE business school)

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management, Spirituality & Religion [mailto:MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On
    Behalf Of Don McCormick
    Sent: 04/14/2009 10:14 PM
    To: MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: 2009 Roundtables... Regent University, Evangelical Christians,
    MSR

    On Apr 14, 2009, at 11:23 AM, <judi@SPIRITATWORK.ORG> wrote:

    > Don,
    >
    > I really appreciate what you have shared about perennialists and
    > unquestioned assumptions. I have to admit that before I read the
    > section of your article that you quoted before that I have pretty
    > much been a perennialist myself. Perhaps as this field matures, we
    > will all be able to move from trying to find a Unified Field Theory
    > of Spirituality and Religion in the Workplace to a perspective that
    > values the diversity of religious and spiritual experiences,
    > practices and theology that exist in our places of work in the U.S.
    > and around the world.

    Uh oh. I'm not doing a very good job of communicating. I'm not against
    perennialism. I'm basically a perennialist myself. What I think is
    problematic is teaching perennialism as if it were "THE TRUTH,"
    instead of one of many different competing perspectives that explain
    the relationship between religions, and between religion and
    spirituality. I think that we perennialists sometimes just assume that
    our approach, because it is so inclusive and (to some degree)
    respectful and appreciative of different spiritual traditions, is the
    truth and so what's the big fuss. It may in fact be the truth, but it
    is also a religious/spiritual ideology. And if you are a Christian
    professor at a pluralistic university, you shouldn't teach a course in
    world religions with the assumption that Christianity is right and all
    other religions are wrong; even if you believe that to be the case.
    Nor should perennialist professors teach a course in management,
    spirituality and religion with the assumption that perennialism is
    right and other perspectives are wrong.

    I should also say, I think this is only a problem if you are teaching
    in a spiritually pluralistic environment. If you were at a Catholic
    university or a seminary, there is nothing wrong with having some
    classes where the instructor basically takes the stance that
    Christianity is the truth.

    It's like employment discrimination based on religion. In most
    settings it is unethical and illegal. But in some other settings, such
    as explicitly religious organizations where part of the job is
    advocacy of the religion, it is legal and seems, to me at least, to be
    ethical.

    "But that's just my opinion; I may be wrong."

    - Don

    ---
    Don McCormick
    Department of Management, College of Business and Economics
    California State University Northridge, Juniper Hall 4218
    18111 Nordhoff St., Northridge CA 91330
    http://www.csun.edu/~dmccormick (818) 677-2418

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to:
    MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

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    http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

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    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

    To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

    To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1


  • 2.  teaching from a place of right/wrong

    Posted 04-19-2009 07:04
    It seems to me that a fundamental principle of any MBA, or any university
    course, should be to teach critical thinking, and often embedded in that are
    training in philosophical enquiry and ethical enquiry.

    That means that HOW we establish concepts of right and wrong, or any
    paradigm needs to be examined. Students who want to be told what is right
    and wrong need to be woken up, encouraged to risk uncertainty and curiosity,
    and taught how to ask better questions.

    I suspect that a preoccupation with right/wrong is partly a cultural
    mindset, whether it comes from a social milieu, work environment, or
    political / social / cultural ideology. It is also something we are sadly
    schooled and domesticated into, in whatever country we went to school. James
    P Carse, in 'Finite and Infinite Games' says that education prepares us for
    surprise, while training prepares us against surprise. By his definition,
    students who want to be told what is right and what is wrong want to be
    trained, rather than educated, programmed rather than empowered.

    The preoccupation with right/wrong can also come from a success/failure
    culture, where these ideas are defined by the 'other', often the collective
    'other' that holds power in some way. If there are predefined right answers
    to question in an MBA exam, God help us, because we are training people to
    be parrots, and repeat old thinking and behaviours rather than find the
    action or response that best fits the new, unique situation. The
    educationalist Murray Schafer, in 'Rhinoceros in the classroom', said that
    the problem with 'transmission' styles of teaching was as follows:

    "The old approach: Teacher has information; student has empty head.
    Teacher¹s objective: to push information into student¹s empty head.
    Observations: at outset teacher is a fathead; at conclusion student is a
    fathead."

    --------------------------------------------
    Alexander Massey
    Coach and Consultant
    Communication, Thinking and Feeling

    Tel: 01865-716571
    Mob: 07771-988207
    Email: amassey@voicewisdom.co.uk

    > Hello all,
    >
    > I am having challenges with teaching that seem related to this theme of
    > teaching from a place of what's right/wrong.
    >
    > Perhaps someone on this list has more advice on how to teach effectively
    > from a place of many truths.
    > Although I am not teaching spirituality or religious topics, I am teaching
    > leadership and coaching and feedback. This is my first year teaching
    > here--to rooms of 60 international MBA students at a time.
    >
    >
    > 1. It seems like the students want clear right/wrong answers.
    >
    > yet I spent years (training to be coach, doing landmark forum, etc.) to drop
    > the paradigm of right/wrong, and now it feels like it is expected and
    > seemingly effective (another professor who makes the students "wrong", or
    > breaks them down so to speak with harsh language, gets great ratings), and
    > students have asked me to be more critical and harsh with them during class
    > discussion and role plays.
    >
    > 2. Even moreso, realistically I suspect I am often presenting my own view as
    > the "right" one, even if that view at times is "there are no truths".
    >
    > So now I am in an inquiry:
    >
    > First,
    > **How can I learn to challenge students effectively, without making my view,
    > or any one view, the right one?
    >
    > Second,
    > although I may have attained some mastery in one-on-one coaching-type
    > conversations for development and in academic research, I have MUCH to learn
    > on how to faciliate large group dynamics for transformative learning.
    >
    > **What suggestions or additional resources have you found useful for
    > facilitating large classrooms (up to 60) to challenge assumptions about
    > leadership, relationships, the meaning of work and life??
    >
    > I just signed up for the OBTC conference, AOM conf, and the MSR retreat, so
    > I hope to talk with people more about this in the next few months.
    > Best, Tara
    >
    > Tara Wernsing
    > Assistant Professor
    > Instituto de Empresa (IE business school)

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

    To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

    To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1


  • 3.  teaching from a place of right/wrong

    Posted 04-19-2009 08:38
    Tara,

    I make an announcement at the start of each semester. I tell students
    that everyone is biased including me! I tell them I am a practicing
    Catholic. I say something like, "I believe in individuals more than
    governments. I do not like forced collectives. It is not the role
    of government nor the church to force individuals to be good, to help
    the poor or make individuals conform to some sexual norm. I believe
    in free will. In the end individuals are the best to choose what is
    right for them not governments. I give to charities. If you don't
    give to charities, then it is wrong for me to get government to force
    you to give to the poor too. I will try not to be biased in my
    presentation of facts and theory, but I WILL BE BIASED! Be weary of
    any professor or any individual who states they are not biased. The
    more a person insists they are not biased the more biased they are.
    You do not have to agree with me, but you have to defend your opinions
    with facts and/or theory."

    This sets the stage for some healthy debate and discussion which I
    want. If there seems to be some consensus of an idea among students
    during discussion I frequently take the opposing side.

    David



    On Apr 19, 2009, at 4:17 AM, Tara S Wernsing wrote:

    > Hello all,
    >
    > I am having challenges with teaching that seem related to this theme
    > of
    > teaching from a place of what's right/wrong.
    >
    > Perhaps someone on this list has more advice on how to teach
    > effectively
    > from a place of many truths.
    > Although I am not teaching spirituality or religious topics, I am
    > teaching
    > leadership and coaching and feedback. This is my first year teaching
    > here--to rooms of 60 international MBA students at a time.
    >
    >
    > 1. It seems like the students want clear right/wrong answers.
    >
    > yet I spent years (training to be coach, doing landmark forum, etc.)
    > to drop
    > the paradigm of right/wrong, and now it feels like it is expected and
    > seemingly effective (another professor who makes the students
    > "wrong", or
    > breaks them down so to speak with harsh language, gets great
    > ratings), and
    > students have asked me to be more critical and harsh with them
    > during class
    > discussion and role plays.
    >
    > 2. Even moreso, realistically I suspect I am often presenting my own
    > view as
    > the "right" one, even if that view at times is "there are no truths".
    >
    > So now I am in an inquiry:
    >
    > First,
    > **How can I learn to challenge students effectively, without making
    > my view,
    > or any one view, the right one?
    >
    > Second,
    > although I may have attained some mastery in one-on-one coaching-type
    > conversations for development and in academic research, I have MUCH
    > to learn
    > on how to faciliate large group dynamics for transformative learning.
    >
    > **What suggestions or additional resources have you found useful for
    > facilitating large classrooms (up to 60) to challenge assumptions
    > about
    > leadership, relationships, the meaning of work and life??
    >
    > I just signed up for the OBTC conference, AOM conf, and the MSR
    > retreat, so
    > I hope to talk with people more about this in the next few months.
    > Best, Tara
    >
    > Tara Wernsing
    > Assistant Professor
    > Instituto de Empresa (IE business school)
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Management, Spirituality & Religion [mailto:MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > ] On
    > Behalf Of Don McCormick
    > Sent: 04/14/2009 10:14 PM
    > To: MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Subject: Re: 2009 Roundtables... Regent University, Evangelical
    > Christians,
    > MSR
    >
    > On Apr 14, 2009, at 11:23 AM, <judi@SPIRITATWORK.ORG> wrote:
    >
    >> Don,
    >>
    >> I really appreciate what you have shared about perennialists and
    >> unquestioned assumptions. I have to admit that before I read the
    >> section of your article that you quoted before that I have pretty
    >> much been a perennialist myself. Perhaps as this field matures, we
    >> will all be able to move from trying to find a Unified Field Theory
    >> of Spirituality and Religion in the Workplace to a perspective that
    >> values the diversity of religious and spiritual experiences,
    >> practices and theology that exist in our places of work in the U.S.
    >> and around the world.
    >
    > Uh oh. I'm not doing a very good job of communicating. I'm not against
    > perennialism. I'm basically a perennialist myself. What I think is
    > problematic is teaching perennialism as if it were "THE TRUTH,"
    > instead of one of many different competing perspectives that explain
    > the relationship between religions, and between religion and
    > spirituality. I think that we perennialists sometimes just assume that
    > our approach, because it is so inclusive and (to some degree)
    > respectful and appreciative of different spiritual traditions, is the
    > truth and so what's the big fuss. It may in fact be the truth, but it
    > is also a religious/spiritual ideology. And if you are a Christian
    > professor at a pluralistic university, you shouldn't teach a course in
    > world religions with the assumption that Christianity is right and all
    > other religions are wrong; even if you believe that to be the case.
    > Nor should perennialist professors teach a course in management,
    > spirituality and religion with the assumption that perennialism is
    > right and other perspectives are wrong.
    >
    > I should also say, I think this is only a problem if you are teaching
    > in a spiritually pluralistic environment. If you were at a Catholic
    > university or a seminary, there is nothing wrong with having some
    > classes where the instructor basically takes the stance that
    > Christianity is the truth.
    >
    > It's like employment discrimination based on religion. In most
    > settings it is unethical and illegal. But in some other settings, such
    > as explicitly religious organizations where part of the job is
    > advocacy of the religion, it is legal and seems, to me at least, to be
    > ethical.
    >
    > "But that's just my opinion; I may be wrong."
    >
    > - Don
    >
    > ---
    > Don McCormick
    > Department of Management, College of Business and Economics
    > California State University Northridge, Juniper Hall 4218
    > 18111 Nordhoff St., Northridge CA 91330
    > http://www.csun.edu/~dmccormick (818) 677-2418
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to:
    > MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu
    >
    > To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit:
    > http://group.aomonline.org/msr/
    >
    > To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit:
    > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu
    >
    > To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/
    >
    > To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

    To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

    To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1


  • 4.  teaching from a place of right/wrong

    Posted 04-19-2009 11:38
    Hi Tara,

    There are ethical dilemmas in which the right course of action is debatable, but I think most of the time the right course of action is clear. I think students--and all people--need principles that will help them to know what the right course of action is. Here's my 10-second lecture on ethics: obey the law, treat other people kindly, honestly, and fairly, and the way you would like to be treated. I think this simple advice covers most circumstances pretty well. It's independent of any particular religion, and it doesn't seem to conflict with most religions.

    I know this is not what you asked for. It doesn't challenge the students to figure out what is right. Instead, it challenges the students to do the right thing. And I think that is the bigger challenge for all of us. I think most of us know what is right most of the time, the question is whether we have the will to do it.

    I have simplified the discussion of ethics in my classes because I think that by making it more complex and adopting the position that "we don't know what's right so how can we tell our students what's right," we're not accomplishing much. I also think we're kidding ourselves if we imagine we are likely to transform very many students so they behave more ethically.

    I know I'm sticking my neck out here, and I am familiar with ways in which these ideas can be attacked, but most people seem to recognize they have merit.

    Best wishes,

    Tom Slocombe


    >>> Tara S Wernsing <twernsing@YAHOO.COM> 04/19/09 5:29 AM >>>
    Hello all,

    I am having challenges with teaching that seem related to this theme of
    teaching from a place of what's right/wrong.

    Perhaps someone on this list has more advice on how to teach effectively
    from a place of many truths.
    Although I am not teaching spirituality or religious topics, I am teaching
    leadership and coaching and feedback. This is my first year teaching
    here--to rooms of 60 international MBA students at a time.


    1. It seems like the students want clear right/wrong answers.

    yet I spent years (training to be coach, doing landmark forum, etc.) to drop
    the paradigm of right/wrong, and now it feels like it is expected and
    seemingly effective (another professor who makes the students "wrong", or
    breaks them down so to speak with harsh language, gets great ratings), and
    students have asked me to be more critical and harsh with them during class
    discussion and role plays.

    2. Even moreso, realistically I suspect I am often presenting my own view as
    the "right" one, even if that view at times is "there are no truths".

    So now I am in an inquiry:

    First,
    **How can I learn to challenge students effectively, without making my view,
    or any one view, the right one?

    Second,
    although I may have attained some mastery in one-on-one coaching-type
    conversations for development and in academic research, I have MUCH to learn
    on how to faciliate large group dynamics for transformative learning.

    **What suggestions or additional resources have you found useful for
    facilitating large classrooms (up to 60) to challenge assumptions about
    leadership, relationships, the meaning of work and life??

    I just signed up for the OBTC conference, AOM conf, and the MSR retreat, so
    I hope to talk with people more about this in the next few months.
    Best, Tara

    Tara Wernsing
    Assistant Professor
    Instituto de Empresa (IE business school)

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management, Spirituality & Religion [mailto:MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On
    Behalf Of Don McCormick
    Sent: 04/14/2009 10:14 PM
    To: MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: 2009 Roundtables... Regent University, Evangelical Christians,
    MSR

    On Apr 14, 2009, at 11:23 AM, <judi@SPIRITATWORK.ORG> wrote:

    > Don,
    >
    > I really appreciate what you have shared about perennialists and
    > unquestioned assumptions. I have to admit that before I read the
    > section of your article that you quoted before that I have pretty
    > much been a perennialist myself. Perhaps as this field matures, we
    > will all be able to move from trying to find a Unified Field Theory
    > of Spirituality and Religion in the Workplace to a perspective that
    > values the diversity of religious and spiritual experiences,
    > practices and theology that exist in our places of work in the U.S.
    > and around the world.

    Uh oh. I'm not doing a very good job of communicating. I'm not against
    perennialism. I'm basically a perennialist myself. What I think is
    problematic is teaching perennialism as if it were "THE TRUTH,"
    instead of one of many different competing perspectives that explain
    the relationship between religions, and between religion and
    spirituality. I think that we perennialists sometimes just assume that
    our approach, because it is so inclusive and (to some degree)
    respectful and appreciative of different spiritual traditions, is the
    truth and so what's the big fuss. It may in fact be the truth, but it
    is also a religious/spiritual ideology. And if you are a Christian
    professor at a pluralistic university, you shouldn't teach a course in
    world religions with the assumption that Christianity is right and all
    other religions are wrong; even if you believe that to be the case.
    Nor should perennialist professors teach a course in management,
    spirituality and religion with the assumption that perennialism is
    right and other perspectives are wrong.

    I should also say, I think this is only a problem if you are teaching
    in a spiritually pluralistic environment. If you were at a Catholic
    university or a seminary, there is nothing wrong with having some
    classes where the instructor basically takes the stance that
    Christianity is the truth.

    It's like employment discrimination based on religion. In most
    settings it is unethical and illegal. But in some other settings, such
    as explicitly religious organizations where part of the job is
    advocacy of the religion, it is legal and seems, to me at least, to be
    ethical.

    "But that's just my opinion; I may be wrong."

    - Don

    ---
    Don McCormick
    Department of Management, College of Business and Economics
    California State University Northridge, Juniper Hall 4218
    18111 Nordhoff St., Northridge CA 91330
    http://www.csun.edu/~dmccormick (818) 677-2418

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to:
    MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

    To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit:
    http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

    To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit:
    http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

    To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

    To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

    To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

    To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1


  • 5.  teaching from a place of right/wrong

    Posted 04-19-2009 14:34
    Tara,
    Your e-mail is such a helpful statement of something with which we all struggle from time to time.  It seems to be a fairly common observation re: MBA students that they (and, of course, this is a gross generalization) really are not interested in plumbing the depths of philosophical (or spiritual) questions.  That is, they are not so much interested at this point in their business education about questions of "what is truth?" so much as they really just want to know "what works?"  "What works" (especially in the short-term) may or may not be congruent with broader questions of "truth"--but the point is that pragmatism rules the day while truth, even when approached very pluralistically, is left perhaps for a later and more liesurely time.
     
    I am always helped by a statement of Aristotle when it comes to issues like these in the classroom at any level:  "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." 
     
    Sharing this concept with MBA students may be a bit beyond what they want to hear pragmatically, but it is a basis upon which more pluralistic and "civil" conversations can occur in settings where participants hail from diverse backgrounds and perspectives.  I have usefully applied it to my own thinking in being able to understand and appreciate the findings of diverse research methods and paradigms, even though I may not adopt them as my own (obviously, I don't buy into strict incommensurability).  The same reasoning could just as well be appllied across cultures, religions, versions of spirituality, or ideologies of any kind.  We can seek to understand and be appreciative/respectful without that being somehow taken as a personal statement of conversion.  I don't see how pluralistic societies (or groups or organizations) can peacefully co-exist within or between themselves if they do not develop the competencies to interact with this kind of diversity. 
    Mathew
     
    --
    Mathew L. Sheep, Ph.D.
    College of Business
    Illinois State University
    Campus Box 5580
    Normal, IL 61790-5580
    Phone. (309) 438-4525
    E-mail. msheep@ilstu.edu


     
    On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 4:17 AM, Tara S Wernsing <twernsing@yahoo.com> wrote:
    Hello all,

    I am having challenges with teaching that seem related to this theme of
    teaching from a place of what's right/wrong.

    Perhaps someone on this list has more advice on how to teach effectively
    from a place of many truths.
    Although I am not teaching spirituality or religious topics, I am teaching
    leadership and coaching and feedback. This is my first year teaching
    here--to rooms of 60 international MBA students at a time.


    1. It seems like the students want clear right/wrong answers.

    yet I spent years (training to be coach, doing landmark forum, etc.) to drop
    the paradigm of right/wrong, and now it feels like it is expected and
    seemingly effective (another professor who makes the students "wrong", or
    breaks them down so to speak with harsh language, gets great ratings), and
    students have asked me to be more critical and harsh with them during class
    discussion and role plays.

    2. Even moreso, realistically I suspect I am often presenting my own view as
    the "right" one, even if that view at times is "there are no truths".

    So now I am in an inquiry:

    First,
    **How can I learn to challenge students effectively, without making my view,
    or any one view, the right one?

    Second,
    although I may have attained some mastery in one-on-one coaching-type
    conversations for development and in academic research, I have MUCH to learn
    on how to faciliate large group dynamics for transformative learning.

    **What suggestions or additional resources have you found useful for
    facilitating large classrooms (up to 60) to challenge assumptions about
    leadership, relationships, the meaning of work and life??

    I just signed up for the OBTC conference, AOM conf, and the MSR retreat, so
    I hope to talk with people more about this in the next few months.
    Best, Tara

    Tara Wernsing
    Assistant Professor
    Instituto de Empresa (IE business school)

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management, Spirituality & Religion [mailto:MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On
    Behalf Of Don McCormick
    Sent: 04/14/2009 10:14 PM
    To: MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: 2009 Roundtables... Regent University, Evangelical Christians,
    MSR

    On Apr 14, 2009, at 11:23 AM, <judi@SPIRITATWORK.ORG> wrote:

    > Don,
    >
    > I really appreciate what you have shared about perennialists and
    > unquestioned assumptions.  I have to admit that before I read the
    > section of your article that you quoted before that I have pretty
    > much been a perennialist myself.  Perhaps as this field matures, we
    > will all be able to move from trying to find a Unified Field Theory
    > of Spirituality and Religion in the Workplace to a perspective that
    > values the diversity of religious and spiritual experiences,
    > practices and theology that exist in our places of work in the U.S.
    > and around the world.

    Uh oh. I'm not doing a very good job of communicating. I'm not against
    perennialism. I'm basically a perennialist myself. What I think is
    problematic is teaching perennialism as if it were "THE TRUTH,"
    instead of one of many different competing perspectives that explain
    the relationship between religions, and between religion and
    spirituality. I think that we perennialists sometimes just assume that
    our approach, because it is so inclusive and (to some degree)
    respectful and appreciative of different spiritual traditions, is the
    truth and so what's the big fuss. It may in fact be the truth, but it
    is also a religious/spiritual ideology. And if you are a Christian
    professor at a pluralistic university, you shouldn't teach a course in
    world religions with the assumption that Christianity is right and all
    other religions are wrong; even if you believe that to be the case.
    Nor should perennialist professors teach a course in management,
    spirituality and religion with the assumption that perennialism is
    right and other perspectives are wrong.

    I should also say, I think this is only a problem if you are teaching
    in a spiritually pluralistic environment. If you were at a Catholic
    university or a seminary, there is nothing wrong with having some
    classes where the instructor basically takes the stance that
    Christianity is the truth.

    It's like employment discrimination based on religion. In most
    settings it is unethical and illegal. But in some other settings, such
    as explicitly religious organizations where part of the job is
    advocacy of the religion, it is legal and seems, to me at least, to be
    ethical.

    "But that's just my opinion; I may be wrong."

    - Don

    ---
    Don McCormick
    Department of Management, College of Business and Economics
    California State University Northridge, Juniper Hall 4218
    18111 Nordhoff St., Northridge CA 91330
    http://www.csun.edu/~dmccormick  (818) 677-2418

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to:
    MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

    To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit:
    http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

    To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit:
    http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

    To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

    To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1







    _______________________________________________________________________ To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/ To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1


  • 6.  teaching from a place of right/wrong

    Posted 04-19-2009 16:26

    Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
    there is a field.  I'll meet you there.

    When the soul lies down in that grass,
    the world is too full to talk about.
    Ideas, language, even the phrase each other
    doesn't make any sense.

    From Essential Rumi
    by Coleman Barks

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management, Spirituality & Religion [mailto:MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mathew Sheep
    Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 2:34 PM
    To: MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: teaching from a place of right/wrong

    Tara,
    Your e-mail is such a helpful statement of something with which we all struggle from time to time.  It seems to be a fairly common observation re: MBA students that they (and, of course, this is a gross generalization) really are not interested in plumbing the depths of philosophical (or spiritual) questions.  That is, they are not so much interested at this point in their business education about questions of "what is truth?" so much as they really just want to know "what works?"  "What works" (especially in the short-term) may or may not be congruent with broader questions of "truth"--but the point is that pragmatism rules the day while truth, even when approached very pluralistically, is left perhaps for a later and more liesurely time.
     
    I am always helped by a statement of Aristotle when it comes to issues like these in the classroom at any level:  "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." 
     
    Sharing this concept with MBA students may be a bit beyond what they want to hear pragmatically, but it is a basis upon which more pluralistic and "civil" conversations can occur in settings where participants hail from diverse backgrounds and perspectives.  I have usefully applied it to my own thinking in being able to understand and appreciate the findings of diverse research methods and paradigms, even though I may not adopt them as my own (obviously, I don't buy into strict incommensurability).  The same reasoning could just as well be appllied across cultures, religions, versions of spirituality, or ideologies of any kind.  We can seek to understand and be appreciative/respectful without that being somehow taken as a personal statement of conversion.  I don't see how pluralistic societies (or groups or organizations) can peacefully co-exist within or between themselves if they do not develop the competencies to interact with this kind of diversity. 
    Mathew
     
    --
    Mathew L. Sheep, Ph.D.
    College of Business
    Illinois State University
    Campus Box 5580
    Normal, IL 61790-5580
    Phone. (309) 438-4525
    E-mail. msheep@ilstu.edu


     
    On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 4:17 AM, Tara S Wernsing <twernsing@yahoo.com> wrote:
    Hello all,

    I am having challenges with teaching that seem related to this theme of
    teaching from a place of what's right/wrong.

    Perhaps someone on this list has more advice on how to teach effectively
    from a place of many truths.
    Although I am not teaching spirituality or religious topics, I am teaching
    leadership and coaching and feedback. This is my first year teaching
    here--to rooms of 60 international MBA students at a time.


    1. It seems like the students want clear right/wrong answers.

    yet I spent years (training to be coach, doing landmark forum, etc.) to drop
    the paradigm of right/wrong, and now it feels like it is expected and
    seemingly effective (another professor who makes the students "wrong", or
    breaks them down so to speak with harsh language, gets great ratings), and
    students have asked me to be more critical and harsh with them during class
    discussion and role plays.

    2. Even moreso, realistically I suspect I am often presenting my own view as
    the "right" one, even if that view at times is "there are no truths".

    So now I am in an inquiry:

    First,
    **How can I learn to challenge students effectively, without making my view,
    or any one view, the right one?

    Second,
    although I may have attained some mastery in one-on-one coaching-type
    conversations for development and in academic research, I have MUCH to learn
    on how to faciliate large group dynamics for transformative learning.

    **What suggestions or additional resources have you found useful for
    facilitating large classrooms (up to 60) to challenge assumptions about
    leadership, relationships, the meaning of work and life??

    I just signed up for the OBTC conference, AOM conf, and the MSR retreat, so
    I hope to talk with people more about this in the next few months.
    Best, Tara

    Tara Wernsing
    Assistant Professor
    Instituto de Empresa (IE business school)

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management, Spirituality & Religion [mailto:MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On
    Behalf Of Don McCormick
    Sent: 04/14/2009 10:14 PM
    To: MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: 2009 Roundtables... Regent University, Evangelical Christians,
    MSR

    On Apr 14, 2009, at 11:23 AM, <judi@SPIRITATWORK.ORG> wrote:

    > Don,
    >
    > I really appreciate what you have shared about perennialists and
    > unquestioned assumptions.  I have to admit that before I read the
    > section of your article that you quoted before that I have pretty
    > much been a perennialist myself.  Perhaps as this field matures, we
    > will all be able to move from trying to find a Unified Field Theory
    > of Spirituality and Religion in the Workplace to a perspective that
    > values the diversity of religious and spiritual experiences,
    > practices and theology that exist in our places of work in the U.S.
    > and around the world.

    Uh oh. I'm not doing a very good job of communicating. I'm not against
    perennialism. I'm basically a perennialist myself. What I think is
    problematic is teaching perennialism as if it were "THE TRUTH,"
    instead of one of many different competing perspectives that explain
    the relationship between religions, and between religion and
    spirituality. I think that we perennialists sometimes just assume that
    our approach, because it is so inclusive and (to some degree)
    respectful and appreciative of different spiritual traditions, is the
    truth and so what's the big fuss. It may in fact be the truth, but it
    is also a religious/spiritual ideology. And if you are a Christian
    professor at a pluralistic university, you shouldn't teach a course in
    world religions with the assumption that Christianity is right and all
    other religions are wrong; even if you believe that to be the case.
    Nor should perennialist professors teach a course in management,
    spirituality and religion with the assumption that perennialism is
    right and other perspectives are wrong.

    I should also say, I think this is only a problem if you are teaching
    in a spiritually pluralistic environment. If you were at a Catholic
    university or a seminary, there is nothing wrong with having some
    classes where the instructor basically takes the stance that
    Christianity is the truth.

    It's like employment discrimination based on religion. In most
    settings it is unethical and illegal. But in some other settings, such
    as explicitly religious organizations where part of the job is
    advocacy of the religion, it is legal and seems, to me at least, to be
    ethical.

    "But that's just my opinion; I may be wrong."

    - Don

    ---
    Don McCormick
    Department of Management, College of Business and Economics
    California State University Northridge, Juniper Hall 4218
    18111 Nordhoff St., Northridge CA 91330
    http://www.csun.edu/~dmccormick  (818) 677-2418

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to:
    MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

    To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit:
    http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

    To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit:
    http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

    To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

    To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1







    _______________________________________________________________________ To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/ To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1
    _______________________________________________________________________ To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/ To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1


  • 7.  teaching from a place of right/wrong

    Posted 04-19-2009 23:41
    My friends, as this dialogue continues let us tread carefully, lest we fail to realize that the "field" Rumi speaks of is cultivated with the seeds of relativism. B. Jenkins

    _______________________________________
    From: Management, Spirituality & Religion [MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dr. Anna Gomez [groundedchange@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 3:25 PM To: MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU Subject: Re: teaching from a place of right/wrong

    Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
    there is a field.  I'll meet you there.

    When the soul lies down in that grass,
    the world is too full to talk about.
    Ideas, language, even the phrase each other
    doesn't make any sense.

    From Essential Rumi
    by Coleman Barks

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management, Spirituality & Religion [mailto:MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mathew Sheep
    Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 2:34 PM
    To: MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: teaching from a place of right/wrong

    Tara,
    Your e-mail is such a helpful statement of something with which we all struggle from time to time.  It seems to be a fairly common observation re: MBA students that they (and, of course, this is a gross generalization) really are not interested in plumbing the depths of philosophical (or spiritual) questions.  That is, they are not so much interested at this point in their business education about questions of "what is truth?" so much as they really just want to know "what works?"  "What works" (especially in the short-term) may or may not be congruent with broader questions of "truth"--but the point is that pragmatism rules the day while truth, even when approached very pluralistically, is left perhaps for a later and more liesurely time.
     
    I am always helped by a statement of Aristotle when it comes to issues like these in the classroom at any level:  "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." 
     
    Sharing this concept with MBA students may be a bit beyond what they want to hear pragmatically, but it is a basis upon which more pluralistic and "civil" conversations can occur in settings where participants hail from diverse backgrounds and perspectives.  I have usefully applied it to my own thinking in being able to understand and appreciate the findings of diverse research methods and paradigms, even though I may not adopt them as my own (obviously, I don't buy into strict incommensurability).  The same reasoning could just as well be appllied across cultures, religions, versions of spirituality, or ideologies of any kind.  We can seek to understand and be appreciative/respectful without that being somehow taken as a personal statement of conversion.  I don't see how pluralistic societies (or groups or organizations) can peacefully co-exist within or between themselves if they do not develop the competencies to interact with this kind of diversity. 
    Mathew
     
    -- 
    Mathew L. Sheep, Ph.D.
    College of Business
    Illinois State University
    Campus Box 5580
    Normal, IL 61790-5580
    Phone. (309) 438-4525
    E-mail. msheep@ilstu.edu


     
    On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 4:17 AM, Tara S Wernsing <twernsing@yahoo.com> wrote:
    Hello all,

    I am having challenges with teaching that seem related to this theme of
    teaching from a place of what's right/wrong.

    Perhaps someone on this list has more advice on how to teach effectively
    from a place of many truths.
    Although I am not teaching spirituality or religious topics, I am teaching
    leadership and coaching and feedback. This is my first year teaching
    here--to rooms of 60 international MBA students at a time.


    1. It seems like the students want clear right/wrong answers.

    yet I spent years (training to be coach, doing landmark forum, etc.) to drop
    the paradigm of right/wrong, and now it feels like it is expected and
    seemingly effective (another professor who makes the students "wrong", or
    breaks them down so to speak with harsh language, gets great ratings), and
    students have asked me to be more critical and harsh with them during class
    discussion and role plays.

    2. Even moreso, realistically I suspect I am often presenting my own view as
    the "right" one, even if that view at times is "there are no truths".

    So now I am in an inquiry:

    First,
    **How can I learn to challenge students effectively, without making my view,
    or any one view, the right one?

    Second,
    although I may have attained some mastery in one-on-one coaching-type
    conversations for development and in academic research, I have MUCH to learn
    on how to faciliate large group dynamics for transformative learning.

    **What suggestions or additional resources have you found useful for
    facilitating large classrooms (up to 60) to challenge assumptions about
    leadership, relationships, the meaning of work and life??

    I just signed up for the OBTC conference, AOM conf, and the MSR retreat, so
    I hope to talk with people more about this in the next few months.
    Best, Tara

    Tara Wernsing
    Assistant Professor
    Instituto de Empresa (IE business school)

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management, Spirituality & Religion [mailto:MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On
    Behalf Of Don McCormick
    Sent: 04/14/2009 10:14 PM
    To: MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: 2009 Roundtables... Regent University, Evangelical Christians,
    MSR

    On Apr 14, 2009, at 11:23 AM, <judi@SPIRITATWORK.ORG> wrote:

    > Don,
    >
    > I really appreciate what you have shared about perennialists and
    > unquestioned assumptions.  I have to admit that before I read the
    > section of your article that you quoted before that I have pretty
    > much been a perennialist myself.  Perhaps as this field matures, we
    > will all be able to move from trying to find a Unified Field Theory
    > of Spirituality and Religion in the Workplace to a perspective that
    > values the diversity of religious and spiritual experiences,
    > practices and theology that exist in our places of work in the U.S.
    > and around the world.

    Uh oh. I'm not doing a very good job of communicating. I'm not against
    perennialism. I'm basically a perennialist myself. What I think is
    problematic is teaching perennialism as if it were "THE TRUTH,"
    instead of one of many different competing perspectives that explain
    the relationship between religions, and between religion and
    spirituality. I think that we perennialists sometimes just assume that
    our approach, because it is so inclusive and (to some degree)
    respectful and appreciative of different spiritual traditions, is the
    truth and so what's the big fuss. It may in fact be the truth, but it
    is also a religious/spiritual ideology. And if you are a Christian
    professor at a pluralistic university, you shouldn't teach a course in
    world religions with the assumption that Christianity is right and all
    other religions are wrong; even if you believe that to be the case.
    Nor should perennialist professors teach a course in management,
    spirituality and religion with the assumption that perennialism is
    right and other perspectives are wrong.

    I should also say, I think this is only a problem if you are teaching
    in a spiritually pluralistic environment. If you were at a Catholic
    university or a seminary, there is nothing wrong with having some
    classes where the instructor basically takes the stance that
    Christianity is the truth.

    It's like employment discrimination based on religion. In most
    settings it is unethical and illegal. But in some other settings, such
    as explicitly religious organizations where part of the job is
    advocacy of the religion, it is legal and seems, to me at least, to be
    ethical.

    "But that's just my opinion; I may be wrong."

    - Don

    ---
    Don McCormick
    Department of Management, College of Business and Economics
    California State University Northridge, Juniper Hall 4218
    18111 Nordhoff St., Northridge CA 91330
    http://www.csun.edu/~dmccormick  (818) 677-2418

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to:
    MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

    To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit:
    http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

    To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit:
    http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

    To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

    To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1


    _______________________________________________________________________ To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/ To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1


  • 8.  teaching from a place of right/wrong

    Posted 04-20-2009 10:43
    Hi Tom,

    I like the Buddhist precept: Do good ... or at least do no harm.

    Dean

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Management, Spirituality & Religion [mailto:MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas Slocombe
    Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:38 AM
    To: MSR@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: teaching from a place of right/wrong

    Hi Tara,

    There are ethical dilemmas in which the right course of action is debatable, but I think most of the time the right course of action is clear. I think students--and all people--need principles that will help them to know what the right course of action is. Here's my 10-second lecture on ethics: obey the law, treat other people kindly, honestly, and fairly, and the way you would like to be treated. I think this simple advice covers most circumstances pretty well. It's independent of any particular religion, and it doesn't seem to conflict with most religions.

    <clip>

    Best wishes,

    Tom Slocombe

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

    To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

    To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1


  • 9.  teaching from a place of right/wrong

    Posted 04-23-2009 04:44
    Hi MSR,

    Just wanted to thank people for sharing ideas and words of wisdom from my
    request.

    I appreciate both the ethics related ideas/themes and suggested activities
    for teaching....from a point of view that is inclusive, yet in the process
    challenges assumptions (respectfully) and ways of being.

    Best, Tara

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the MSR Listserv, please send your email to: MSR@AOMLISTS.pace.edu

    To visit the Academy's MSR Web site, please visit: http://group.aomonline.org/msr/

    To manage you MSR Listserv subscription, please visit: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MSR&A=1